Pakistan
trained militant underground groups to fight against India in Kashmir,
former Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf admitted in an interview
with SPIEGEL. In addition, the 67-year-old explains why he wants to
leave his exile in London and return to his country.
SPIEGEL: Pakistanis have been left bewildered by the
incompetence of the government led by President Asif Ali Zardari in
dealing with the consequences of the
disastrous floods. Do you expect another military coup soon?
Musharraf: Whenever the country is in turmoil, everybody looks
to the army. But I would suggest that the times of military coups in
Pakistan are over. The latest political developments have shown that
the Supreme Court has set a bar on itself not to validate a military
takeover.
SPIEGEL: How would you judge the performance of your successor, Zardari, and Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani?
Musharraf: I do not want to comment on the present government,
but everybody can see what they are doing. Pakistan is experiencing a
deep economic decline -- in other areas, as well. Law and order are in
jeopardy, extremism is on the rise and there is political turmoil. The
non-performance of an elected government is the issue.
SPIEGEL: How do you view the role of General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, the man considered to be pulling the strings in Pakistan?
Musharraf: I made him chief of the army, because I thought that he was the best man for the job.
SPIEGEL: When Pakistan's rulers lose power, they traditionally
get imprisoned or murdered by their rivals. Why are you founding a
party to, once again, get involved in politics instead of enjoying
retirement in London, which is at least a safe place?
Musharraf: No risk, no gain. We unfortunately have a culture of
vendetta and vindictiveness in Pakistan. But there is no case of
corruption or fraud or anything against me at the moment. My political
opponents, especially Nawaz Sharif, would love to create a case against
me -- that I am corrupt or have committed fraud or some such. They do
their best to achieve that, but they haven't succeeded. Even if they
did, I would reply in court. Risks need to be taken.
SPIEGEL: Why do you believe that Pakistanis are keenly awaiting your political comeback?
Musharraf: I am not living a hermit's life, I meet people here
and in Dubai and receive accurate feedback. I launched my Facebook page
eight months ago and today I have more than 315,000 fans. And hundreds
of Pakistanis called into a TV show in which I collected money for the
flood victims. They donated $3.5 million. Do you think they are doing
this because they hate me?
SPIEGEL: Is there anything that you regret -- for example, your
secret Kargil Operation, which led to an armed conflict with India in
1999, your arbitrary changes to Pakistan's constitution, your dismissal
of the country's highest judge, the lack of concern for Benazir
Bhutto's life after her return or your oft-criticized mild treatment of
religious militants?
Musharraf: The West blames Pakistan for everything. Nobody asks
the Indian prime minister, Why did you arm your country with a nuclear
weapon? Why are you killing innocent civilians in Kashmir? Nobody was
bothered that Pakistan got split in 1971 because of India's military
backing for Bangladesh (which declared independence from Pakistan that
year). The United States and Germany gave statements, but they didn't
mean anything. Everybody is interested in strategic deals with India,
but Pakistan is always seen as the rogue.
SPIEGEL: Why did you form militant underground groups to fight India in Kashmir?
Musharraf: They were indeed formed. The government turned a blind eye because they wanted India to discuss Kashmir.
SPIEGEL: It was the Pakistani security forces that trained them.
Musharraf: The West was ignoring the resolution of the Kashmir
issue, which is the core issue of Pakistan. We expected the West --
especially the United States and important countries like Germany -- to
resolve the Kashmir issue. Has Germany done that?
'I'm Earning Good Money Here in London, But Pakistan Is My Country'
SPIEGEL: Does that give Pakistan the right to train underground fighters?
Musharraf: Yes, it is the right of any country to promote its
own interests when India is not prepared to discuss Kashmir at the
United Nations and is not prepared to resolve the dispute in a peaceful
manner.
SPIEGEL: And how can a nuclear arsenal be safe when high-ranking
officers support proliferation or even personally profit from it, as
has been alleged? The nuclear scientist Abdul Qadeer Khan claims that
the Pakistani army monitored and organized deals with countries like
North Korea and Iran.
Musharraf: That is wrong, absolutely wrong. Mr. Khan is a characterless man.
SPIEGEL: What did the United States offer you in exchange for getting control of the nuclear weapons in Pakistan?
Musharraf: I would be a traitor if I had ever given our nuclear
weapons to the United States. This capability is our pride and it will
never be compromised.
SPIEGEL: A German member of the militant Islamic Movement of
Uzbekistan, 36-year-old Ahmad Sidiqi, who has been held by US forces in
Afghanistan since July, allegedly told his American interrogators that
he was trained in Pakistan and confessed there were plans to attack
Europe. Why, nine years after 9/11, does Pakistan remain a breeding
ground for international terrorism?
Musharraf: We poisoned Pakistani civil society for 10 years when
we fought the Soviets in Afghanistan in the 1980s. It was jihad and we
brought in militants from all over the world, with the West and
Pakistan together in the lead role. After the withdrawal of the Soviet
troops, the West left Pakistan with 25,000 mujahedeen and al-Qaida
fighters, without any plan for rehabilitation or resettlement. While
you were mostly concerned with the reunification of Germany, we had to
cope with this. Now you expect Pakistan to pull out a magic wand and
make all of this suddenly disappear? That is not doable -- this will
take time.
SPIEGEL: How can the problem be solved?
Musharraf: The West made three blunders so far: After the Soviet
withdrawal from Afghanistan, they abandoned the region in 1989. Then,
after 9/11, they fought the Taliban instead of strengthening the
Pashtuns who could have taken on the radical Taliban. Now you try to
negotiate with so-called "moderate Taliban," but there is no such thing
as a moderate Taliban. There are Taliban and Pashtuns. But as I have
always said: All Taliban are Pashtun, but not all Pashtun people are
Taliban. Again, you should reinforce the ancient Pashtun clans who are
not ideologically aligned with the Taliban to govern Afghanistan and to
fight the Taliban. That's my strong advice. The fourth and worst
blunder would be to quit without winning. Then militancy will prevail
not only in Pakistan, India and Kashmir, but perhaps also in Europe,
the United Kingdom and in the United States. That's my belief.
SPIEGEL: The al-Qaida chief in Pakistan, Sheikh Fateh al Masri,
was recently killed in a US drone attack in North Waziristan. Many
al-Qaida leaders are sheltered by the Haqqani network (of warlord
Jalaluddin Haqqani). How serious is Pakistan about fighting a former
mujahedeen heroes like Haqqani and his son Siraj?
Musharraf: If you hear the new statements from the West that
they plan to withdraw their troops and leave Afghanistan in 2011, then
Pakistan should think of how to handle the withdrawal scenario.
Pakistan needs to find a strategy for its existence, how to tackle the
situation with Seraj Haqqani, Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, the Pakistani
Taliban and Mullah Omar. When the West quits, we will be on our own
with them.
SPIEGEL: Do you not fear that when you return to Pakistan, you
might face the same fate as Benazir Bhutto, who was murdered in a
suicide attack?
Musharraf: Yes, that is a risk, but it won't stop me. I am happy here in London. I am earning good money, but Pakistan is my country.
Interview conducted by Susanne Koelbl